Chapter One Moving from Ecommerce to Ebusiness EBusiness

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Chapter One Moving from E-commerce to E-business

Chapter One Moving from E-commerce to E-business

E-Business Why Study E-business? Promise: Streamlined Business Reality: Blizzard of Buzzwords Process Automation Customers.

E-Business Why Study E-business? Promise: Streamlined Business Reality: Blizzard of Buzzwords Process Automation Customers. com Adaptive Supply Chains Lack of Framework ERP CRM Digital Economy SCM Portals Exchanges Network Infrastructure The scale and scope of modern IT investments requires that managers have a clear understanding of e-business fundamentals! © E-Business Strategies, Inc. -2 www. ebstrategy. com

E-Business Consequences of not Studying E-business? Locally Optimized Business Processes Incompatible Projects Order Fulfillment

E-Business Consequences of not Studying E-business? Locally Optimized Business Processes Incompatible Projects Order Fulfillment Procurement CRM Poorly Designed Business Processes © E-Business Strategies, Inc. ERP Persistent Channel Conflicts & Cross. Department Tensions -3 Resistance to Changes www. ebstrategy. com

E-Business Need for a Robust Framework E-business Course Goals Provide a Managerial Perspective Rationalize

E-Business Need for a Robust Framework E-business Course Goals Provide a Managerial Perspective Rationalize buzzwords A set of basic principles Recognize commonalties across business environments Understand how to map business needs to ebusiness solutions Framework for designing more effective new systems Synthesis Information Technology (IT) changes, but management principles persist! © E-Business Strategies, Inc. -4 www. ebstrategy. com

E-Business Framework for Book Business Strategies and Processes Drive Enable E-business Applications Drive Enable

E-Business Framework for Book Business Strategies and Processes Drive Enable E-business Applications Drive Enable IT Infrastructure © E-Business Strategies, Inc. -5 What is the basic framework that ties business strategies to applications? What are the key ideas of e-business strategies and how do they translate into ebusiness design to align IT with business needs? www. ebstrategy. com

E-Business Table of Contents E-commerce vs. E-business? E-Business Success Stories Ten Rules of E-business

E-Business Table of Contents E-commerce vs. E-business? E-Business Success Stories Ten Rules of E-business What does this mean for managers – Looking Deep Key Take-Aways © E-Business Strategies, Inc. -6 www. ebstrategy. com

E-Business E-commerce Refers to selling of products and services over the Web Transactions fall

E-Business E-commerce Refers to selling of products and services over the Web Transactions fall into three categories: – Business-to-business (B 2 B) – Business-to-consumer (B 2 C) – Consumer-to-consumer (C 2 C) The goal of e-commerce is to reduce transaction costs © E-Business Strategies, Inc. -7 www. ebstrategy. com

E-Business E-commerce Progression Complex Communities of Interest Mega-Portals Functionality E-commerce Transactions Web Storefront Brochure

E-Business E-commerce Progression Complex Communities of Interest Mega-Portals Functionality E-commerce Transactions Web Storefront Brochure ware Limited 0 1 2 3 E-commerce Maturity 4 E-commerce has evolved rapidly since 1995 © E-Business Strategies, Inc. -8 www. ebstrategy. com

E-Business E-business The back-office applications, systems or processes that create goods and/or provide services.

E-Business E-business The back-office applications, systems or processes that create goods and/or provide services. E-business includes: – – – Customer Relationship Management Enterprise Resource Planning Supply Chain Management Human Resource Management Systems And more. . . © E-Business Strategies, Inc. -9 www. ebstrategy. com

E-Business E-commerce vs. E-business E-commerce E-business value added “INPUTS” “OUTPUTS” TRANSFORMATION • People •

E-Business E-commerce vs. E-business E-commerce E-business value added “INPUTS” “OUTPUTS” TRANSFORMATION • People • Raw Material • • • Processes Facilities Equipment Finance People • Serves Customers • Product Sold E-business: The transformation of key business processes through the use of Internet technologies! © E-Business Strategies, Inc. -10 www. ebstrategy. com

E-Business E-business: All About Managing Business Processes Process Analysis & Management E-business Network of

E-Business E-business: All About Managing Business Processes Process Analysis & Management E-business Network of activities Inputs Flow Units (Raw material, people, information, etc. ) Customer Feedback for control E-commerce Products Services Resources Labor & Capital A business process is a network of activities that takes one or more inputs and creates an output of value to customer © E-Business Strategies, Inc. -11 www. ebstrategy. com

E-Business E-business: Linking Today’s Business with Tomorrow’s Technology E-business -- includes all apps and

E-Business E-business: Linking Today’s Business with Tomorrow’s Technology E-business -- includes all apps and processes enabling a company to service a transaction E-business Evolution – Phase 1: Presence, information-only – Phase 2: Transactions – Phase 3: Profitability E-business in third phase today: – Psychology of first two phases: technology would trump experience; future would belong to upstarts as e. Toys – Psychology of this phase: experience, distribution, margins are worth something © E-Business Strategies, Inc. -12 www. ebstrategy. com

E-Business Table of Contents E-commerce vs. E-business? E-business Success Stories Ten Rules of E-business

E-Business Table of Contents E-commerce vs. E-business? E-business Success Stories Ten Rules of E-business What does this mean for managers – Looking Deep Key Take-Aways © E-Business Strategies, Inc. -13 www. ebstrategy. com

E-Business E-business is Changing All Industries Communications Utilities Transportation Hospitality Manufacturing Automotive Financial Insurance

E-Business E-business is Changing All Industries Communications Utilities Transportation Hospitality Manufacturing Automotive Financial Insurance Petrochemical/ Process Health Care Retail Consumer/ Services Entertainment/ Hi-Tech What differentiates the e-business efforts of leading companies from the pack? © E-Business Strategies, Inc. -14 www. ebstrategy. com

E-Business Visionary Firms and E-business Visionary companies understand current business designs are inadequate for

E-Business Visionary Firms and E-business Visionary companies understand current business designs are inadequate for doing business in the ecommerce era – Can buy a $999 built-to-order PC from Dell online but not a customized $3000 color copier from Xerox – Cisco can overhaul its product line every 2 years, but Kodak cannot seem to deliver rapid innovations to meet changing customer requirements Visionary companies have integrated operations to support changing customer requirements – E-customers’ needs, tastes, and expectations transforming shape of the enterprise Necessary: fusion of business designs, processes, apps, and systems on an unprecedented scale © E-Business Strategies, Inc. -15 www. ebstrategy. com

E-Business Visionary Firms and E-business Management at leading companies often ask: – How will

E-Business Visionary Firms and E-business Management at leading companies often ask: – How will ecommerce change our customer priorities? – How can we construct a business design to meet these new customer priorities? – What kind of new apps infrastructure do we need to orchestrate the new business design? – What short-term and long-term investments in people, partners, and tech must we make to survive, let alone thrive, in the new economy? © E-Business Strategies, Inc. -16 www. ebstrategy. com

E-Business E-business Capabilities Process-based – – Capacities that transforms material or information and provide

E-Business E-business Capabilities Process-based – – Capacities that transforms material or information and provide advantages on dimensions of cost and quality. E. g. , United Parcel Service (UPS) Systems-based – – Capacities that are broad-based involving the entire supply chain and provide advantages of short lead times and customization. E. g. , Dell Computer Organization-based – – Capacities that are difficult to replicate and provide abilities to master new technologies. E. g. , Cisco Systems Let’s look at a few visionary companies…. © E-Business Strategies, Inc.

E-Business United Parcel Service Founded in 1907 to become world’s largest express and package

E-Business United Parcel Service Founded in 1907 to become world’s largest express and package delivery firm – 13. 2 million packages per day, 3 billion/year – 344, 000 employees; $29. 8 billion revenue – 11 th largest airline; Largest cellular user in the world Initially a laggard in use of IT. In 1980 s and throughout the 90 s, spent billions of dollars putting in place – – Tracking and tracing technology Frontline handheld technology E-commerce capabilities Huge customer databases Annual IT investment of over $1 billion Benefits – 2 Million tracking requests per day over the web – Connect 1. 7 million sellers with 7 million buyers every day © E-Business Strategies, Inc. -18 www. ebstrategy. com

E-Business Dell - Build to Order E-channel Challenges – Scale to large volumes -

E-Business Dell - Build to Order E-channel Challenges – Scale to large volumes - $50 million a day – Service consumers & businesses Solution – Premier Pages: Provide full-service (leasing, financing, order status) – Increases effectiveness of their sales force Benefits – Sales today: 60% Businesses, 40% Consumers – Improved Customer Service (7 x 24 account status, real-time order status) – More efficient, lower-cost sales cycle © E-Business Strategies, Inc. -19 www. ebstrategy. com

E-Business Cisco Systems Most successful “New Economy” firm with “Old Economy” discipline and operational

E-Business Cisco Systems Most successful “New Economy” firm with “Old Economy” discipline and operational excellence Cisco has propagated IT throughout the organization, in every major function Significant investments in back office ERP ($30 M) and Internet/Intranet ($100 M) Almost $400 M annual savings from use of technology E-business use is a major competitive long-term strategy for Cisco Made it very difficult for slow-moving, traditional companies (Lucent, Nortel) to catch up © E-Business Strategies, Inc. -20 www. ebstrategy. com

E-Business What Do Leading Firms Have in Common, Business-Wise? Unusually successful within their industries

E-Business What Do Leading Firms Have in Common, Business-Wise? Unusually successful within their industries Profitable and growing Clear strategic intent – Wal-Mart (Low Price Guarantee) Long-term technology blueprint -- “Built to last” Complex, multi-functional business model Good places to work – employees turnover low Continually innovative Fit among strategy, business model, systems © E-Business Strategies, Inc. -21 www. ebstrategy. com

E-Business Table of Contents E-commerce vs. E-business? E-business Success Stories Ten Rules of E-business

E-Business Table of Contents E-commerce vs. E-business? E-business Success Stories Ten Rules of E-business What does this mean for you – Looking Deep Key Take-Aways © E-Business Strategies, Inc. -22 www. ebstrategy. com

E-Business Ten Rules of E-business Rule 1 Technology is no longer an afterthought in

E-Business Ten Rules of E-business Rule 1 Technology is no longer an afterthought in forming business strategy, but the actual cause and driver Rule 2 The ability to streamline the structure, influence, and control of the flow of information is dramatically more powerful and costeffective than moving and manufacturing physical products Rule 3 Inability to overthrow the dominant, outdated business design often leads to business failure Rule 4 E-commerce is enabling companies to listen to their customers and become either “the cheapest, ” “the most familiar, ” or “the best” Rule 5 Don’t use technology just to create the product; use it to innovate, entertain, and enhance the entire experience surrounding the product, from selection and ordering to receiving and service © E-Business Strategies, Inc. -23 www. ebstrategy. com

E-Business Ten Rules of E-business Rule 6 The business design of the future increasingly

E-Business Ten Rules of E-business Rule 6 The business design of the future increasingly uses reconfigurable e-business community models to best meet customers’ needs Rule 7 The goal of new business designs is for companies to create flexible outsourcing alliances that not only off-load costs but also make customers ecstatic Rule 8 For urgent e-business projects its easy to minimize application infrastructure needs and to focus on the glitzy front end apps. The oversight can be costly in more ways than one Rule 9 The ability to plan an e-business infrastructure course swiftly and to implement it ruthlessly are key to success; ruthless execution is norm Rule 10 The tough task for management is to align business strategies, processes, and applications fast, right, and all at once; Strong leadership is imperative © E-Business Strategies, Inc. -24 www. ebstrategy. com

E-Business Ten Rules of E-business: Rule 1 Technology is no longer an afterthought in

E-Business Ten Rules of E-business: Rule 1 Technology is no longer an afterthought in forming business strategy, but the actual cause and driver – Conventional, risk-averse businesses cannot ignore e-business – E-commerce poses most significant challenge since advent of computing – Most execs unaware of impact of these changes – Need to see business differently; maintaining status quo not a viable option © E-Business Strategies, Inc. -25 www. ebstrategy. com

E-Business Ten Rules of E-business: Rule 2 The ability to streamline the structure, influence,

E-Business Ten Rules of E-business: Rule 2 The ability to streamline the structure, influence, and control of the flow of information is dramatically more powerful and cost-effective than moving and manufacturing physical products – Core driver of structural transformation of business – Few companies have info-centric business designs for continuous business change and innovation – Changing info flow requires changing product mix and ecosystem • DEC’s demise – Most companies unable to cannibalize existing business structures, reallocate assets to compete with startups © E-Business Strategies, Inc. -26 www. ebstrategy. com

E-Business Ten Rules of E-business: Rule 3 Inability to overthrow the dominant, outdated business

E-Business Ten Rules of E-business: Rule 3 Inability to overthrow the dominant, outdated business design often leads to business failure – Compu. Serve & Prodigy Vs. AOL Not the earliest adopters, but the most serious, eventually prevail – AOL outlasted, outwit, and outsmart competition Often in the early phase, there is an “arms race” between competitors Need to convert technology advantage to process advantage to business model advantage Deeply-embedded innovations are difficult to implement – but also to copy! © E-Business Strategies, Inc. -27 www. ebstrategy. com

E-Business Value Chain Disaggregation and Reaggregation Disaggregation to separate means, or products, from ends,

E-Business Value Chain Disaggregation and Reaggregation Disaggregation to separate means, or products, from ends, or customer needs – Value of a business in the needs it serves, not in products it offers – Intel with continuous innovation in chip design and manufacturing – Requires identifying, valuing, and nurturing core of business: the underlying needs satisfied by company Reaggregation to lower cost or enhance differentiation from competitors – Streamlines entire value chain – Success dependent on well-integrated enterprise apps – Amazon. com Vs. Barnes and Nobles © E-Business Strategies, Inc. -28 www. ebstrategy. com

E-Business The Road Ahead: Steps to a New Beginning Six steps of disaggregation and

E-Business The Road Ahead: Steps to a New Beginning Six steps of disaggregation and reaggregation – What is the new industry structure? • Configuration – What does the digital consumer want? • Value in terms of experience and expectations – What are the new economics? • How to convert value creation into revenue? • How do you engineer the end-to-end value stream? – How do we reorganize our business? • Right partnerships – Where is the value? • Integration – How do we implement change? • New generation leaders who understand how to create digital future by design and intent, not by accident © E-Business Strategies, Inc. -29 www. ebstrategy. com

E-Business Challenging Traditional Definitions of Value Customers need businesses to improve – – Speed

E-Business Challenging Traditional Definitions of Value Customers need businesses to improve – – Speed of service Convenience Personalization Price Managers should ask how they can use technology to create new value proposition for the customer – Domino’s Pizza, Dell, Amazon. com Ability to view world from customers’ perspective prevents visionary companies from starting in wrong place and ending up at wrong destination – Market segmentation analysis difficult to execute in turbulent environment © E-Business Strategies, Inc. -30 www. ebstrategy. com

E-Business Changing the Notion of Value: E-commerce Web and ecommerce have accelerated value innovation

E-Business Changing the Notion of Value: E-commerce Web and ecommerce have accelerated value innovation in speed, convenience, personalization and price dimensions of a service – Changed underlying value proposition Customer’s looking for cheapest, most familiar, or best quality product – A product or service that is 98 percent as good, unfamiliar or costs 50 cents more will not survive – Companies following such middle-of-the-road strategies will underperform © E-Business Strategies, Inc. -31 www. ebstrategy. com

E-Business Ten Rules of E-business: Rule 4 E-commerce is enabling companies to listen to

E-Business Ten Rules of E-business: Rule 4 E-commerce is enabling companies to listen to their customers and become either “the cheapest, ” “the most familiar, ” or “the best” – “The cheapest” not synonymous with inferior quality • Southwest’s “No Frills Flying” • Wal-Mart’s “Everyday Low Prices” – “The most familiar” means customers know what to expect • Mc. Donald’s, Coca-Cola took decades to build brand • AOL and Yahoo carved out strong identities in only a few years using technology © E-Business Strategies, Inc. -32 www. ebstrategy. com

E-Business Ten Rules of E-business: Rule 4 – Being “the best” • Reinventing service

E-Business Ten Rules of E-business: Rule 4 – Being “the best” • Reinventing service processes to enhance quality • Turning company on a dime to move in more profitable directions • Raising relationships with customers and suppliers to unprecedented levels of cooperation and trust • Amercian Express’ Return Protection Plan © E-Business Strategies, Inc. -33 www. ebstrategy. com

E-Business Ten Rules of E-business: Rule 5 Don’t use technology just to create the

E-Business Ten Rules of E-business: Rule 5 Don’t use technology just to create the product; use it to innovate, entertain, and enhance the entire experience surrounding the product, from selection and ordering to receiving and service – Amazon. com in the book retailing industry identified new source of customer value by streamlining consumers’ buying experience – Microsoft anticipated changing customer experiences and reengineered several value chains: Travel (Expedia), Automotive (Car. Point), Real Estate (Home. Advisor), Finance (Investor) © E-Business Strategies, Inc. -34 www. ebstrategy. com

E-Business Ten Rules of E-business: Rule 5 CEOs must understand the threat posed by

E-Business Ten Rules of E-business: Rule 5 CEOs must understand the threat posed by value migration – Is there an Amazon. com that can squeeze margins in your business? – If not, can you create one -- “destroy your business” initiative at GE? – Are any new entrants in your industry leveraging Web to rewire customer experience and change service expectations? CEOs must understand how to manage in a fastmoving environment © E-Business Strategies, Inc. -35 www. ebstrategy. com

E-Business Ten Rules of E-business: Rule 6 The business design of the future increasingly

E-Business Ten Rules of E-business: Rule 6 The business design of the future increasingly uses reconfigurable e-business community models to best meet customers’ needs – Competition no longer between companies but between Business Webs (BWs) • Auto-By-Tel vs. Big Three in the car industry Cost Flexibility Delivery Quality © E-Business Strategies, Inc. -36 www. ebstrategy. com

E-Business Harvesting Outsourcing: E-business Core Competencies 1 st Gen: Cannot do everything well Administration

E-Business Harvesting Outsourcing: E-business Core Competencies 1 st Gen: Cannot do everything well Administration HR Accounting IT Do not outsource core competence Focus: efficiency and cost reduction © E-Business Strategies, Inc. 2 nd Gen: Cannot go at it alone 3 rd Gen: Need advice, contacts and Web savvy Process Outsourcing Investment Partnerships Contract Manufacturing Outsource critical tasks Focus: Time-to-market, Market position via ease of doing business -37 Co-create critical tasks Focus: Market position via ease of doing business (e. g, GE in India) www. ebstrategy. com

E-Business Creating the New Technoenterprise: Integrate, Integrate App integration key to ebusiness – Not

E-Business Creating the New Technoenterprise: Integrate, Integrate App integration key to ebusiness – Not easy, requires major app overhaul for integrated front-end/back-end infrastructure – Integrated app architecture critical with advent of ecommerce – Threat of losing customers looming large with advent of new market entrants © E-Business Strategies, Inc. -38 Strategy Process Customer Needs Corporate Strategy Process Strategy Application Integration Decisions www. ebstrategy. com

E-Business Ten Rules of E-business: Rule 7 The goal of new business designs is

E-Business Ten Rules of E-business: Rule 7 The goal of new business designs is for companies to create flexible outsourcing alliances that not only off-load costs but also make customers ecstatic E-business enabled outsourcing a big deal – Pressure by shareholders for double-digit revenue growth – CEOs have already reengineered, downsized and cut costs; now looking at technology to transform business model and deliver results © E-Business Strategies, Inc. -39 www. ebstrategy. com

E-Business Ten Rules of E-business: Rule 8 For urgent e-business projects its easy to

E-Business Ten Rules of E-business: Rule 8 For urgent e-business projects its easy to minimize application infrastructure needs and to focus on the glitzy front end apps. The oversight can be costly in more ways than one – Decision to adopt e-business architecture is a business, not technical, decision The lack of attention to the back-office systems and process side of E-business is the primary reason for many project failures. © E-Business Strategies, Inc. -40 www. ebstrategy. com

E-Business Ten Rules of E-business: Rule 9 The ability to plan an e-business infrastructure

E-Business Ten Rules of E-business: Rule 9 The ability to plan an e-business infrastructure course swiftly and to implement it ruthlessly are key to success; ruthless execution is norm – Most e-business strategies in dire straits even before they start – Managers often don’t understand complexity of converting strategy into a working architecture The goal of every successful e-business strategy is help the firm either save or make money. © E-Business Strategies, Inc. -41 www. ebstrategy. com

E-Business Ten Rules of E-business: Rule 10 The tough task for management is to

E-Business Ten Rules of E-business: Rule 10 The tough task for management is to align business strategies, processes, and applications fast, right, and all at once; Strong leadership is imperative – Many managers good at planning strategy and looking at things strategically but not at implementing strategy – Implementation takes leadership, commitment and backbone – “Creative destruction” or breaking free from habits of past necessary © E-Business Strategies, Inc. -42 www. ebstrategy. com

E-Business Table of Contents E-commerce vs. E-business? E-business Success Stories Ten Rules of E-business

E-Business Table of Contents E-commerce vs. E-business? E-business Success Stories Ten Rules of E-business What does this mean for managers – Looking Deep Key Take-Aways © E-Business Strategies, Inc. -43 www. ebstrategy. com

E-Business Current Issues in E-Business Effectively consolidating the processes and IT operations resulting from

E-Business Current Issues in E-Business Effectively consolidating the processes and IT operations resulting from mergers Developing flexible supply chains – physical, information and financial -- to enable mass customization of products and services Managing global supplier, production and distribution networks The customer oriented integration -- using technology to combat the increased “commoditization” of products/services Using self-service to cut internal and external operating costs © E-Business Strategies, Inc. -44 www. ebstrategy. com

E-Business Are You Ready? Does senior management understand? – Implementation side of strategy? –

E-Business Are You Ready? Does senior management understand? – Implementation side of strategy? – That entire business platform is being transformed by new technology that tightly integrates internal and external processes? – The risks, challenges in integrating and implementing enterprise apps necessary for an ebusiness enterprise? – What it takes to build inter-enterprise, techsupported processes, such as SCM, that form backbone of ebusiness? – Do you have baggage – legacy apps, calcified processes, bureaucratic controls and inflexible business models © E-Business Strategies, Inc. -45 www. ebstrategy. com

E-Business Fundamental Questions in Each Phase • How will e-commerce change our customer priorities?

E-Business Fundamental Questions in Each Phase • How will e-commerce change our customer priorities? • What new things do our customers want? • How can we construct a business design to meet these new customer priorities? • What kind of new applications infrastructure do we need to orchestrate the new business design? • What short-term and long-term investments in people, partners, and technology must we make to survive, let alone thrive in this new environment? © E-Business Strategies, Inc. -46 www. ebstrategy. com

E-Business Are Customers Are Looking for Internet Business Solutions • Customer attitudes — from

E-Business Are Customers Are Looking for Internet Business Solutions • Customer attitudes — from tactical to strategic • Customers require solutions — not just products and services • Internet business solutions are evaluated and selected by the business decision-makers — not the technical staff • Business decision-makers are looking for a trusted advisor © E-Business Strategies, Inc. -47 www. ebstrategy. com

E-Business Table of Contents E-commerce vs. E-business? E-business Success Stories Ten Rules of E-business

E-Business Table of Contents E-commerce vs. E-business? E-business Success Stories Ten Rules of E-business What does this mean for managers – Looking Deep Key Take-Aways © E-Business Strategies, Inc. -48 www. ebstrategy. com

E-Business E-business is NOT about Technology Strategic Business decisions Technology decisions Tactical Time E-business

E-Business E-business is NOT about Technology Strategic Business decisions Technology decisions Tactical Time E-business decision-makers are Presidents, CEO’s, CFO’s, and department heads What motivates them – business strategy & direction, NOT technology © E-Business Strategies, Inc. -49 www. ebstrategy. com

E-Business E-business Management Challenges Why Should Senior Management Be Much More Focused On E-business

E-Business E-business Management Challenges Why Should Senior Management Be Much More Focused On E-business Decisions Today? The Cost Of Making A Technology Mistake Has Increased Exponentially Siemens invests 1 Billion in Supply Chain Project © E-Business Strategies, Inc. Nike reports 400 Million loss due to supply chain software snafu Coco-Cola invest 600 Million in Logistics platform

E-Business Questions for every E-business manager • How will e-business transform business models in

E-Business Questions for every E-business manager • How will e-business transform business models in my industry? • How can e-business help to achieve my business goals and objectives? • What is our e-business design that lets us compete effectively? • What e-business opportunities are attractive for my company? • Based on customer needs, what processes can be streamlined or enhanced by e-business? © E-Business Strategies, Inc. -51 www. ebstrategy. com

E-Business Strategies, Inc. www. ebstrategy. com contact@ebstrategy. com 678 -339 -1236 x 201 Fax

E-Business Strategies, Inc. www. ebstrategy. com [email protected] com 678 -339 -1236 x 201 Fax - 678 -339 -9793